tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post4769693667003691775..comments2023-12-22T03:51:16.223-05:00Comments on Big Monkey, Helpy Chalk: "If only we had forgiven Iraq for 9/11"Rob Helpy-Chalkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13814390262154687969noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-2538811301125871722008-02-26T15:59:00.000-05:002008-02-26T15:59:00.000-05:00Hello!I ended up to this post looking for somethin...Hello!<BR/>I ended up to this post looking for something totally else but I found it very interesting to read. I'm aware that it is an old post and that my comment might end up unnoticed, but I still need to write it here. <BR/>I wish to encourage all the teachers that try to teach children the truth and the facts. Go on! Don't give up. Talk to the children, talk as much as you can and teach them to judge with their own brains and to search for the facts by their own. That is so important! As it is the fact that the USA is affecting the situation in the wholw world, I'm almost willing to say that American teachers have just a tad bit more responsibility for the situation in the world, although, the teachers all together have big part in forming future grownups and it is a real joy to see people who are aware of that.<BR/>I must say that in my country children do not even get the opportunity to make such nonfactual remarks, since they lear only facts, plenty of facts and no relations between them, no conclusions, they may make their own conclusions, but nobody is asking them to tell them.<BR/>When I went to school, we were taught facts too, but only partially with some not always logical conclusions. I was lucky because my parents would then tell me about the facts that were skipped at school, but many people think just the same as they were taught with no wish to do their own researching. But my country is little and our ignorant people are not in position to affect the situation in the world, while it is very important that the ignorance is faught in the big countries.<BR/>So, thank you.<BR/><BR/>Lina from CroatiaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-6461108717794362932008-01-02T12:44:00.000-05:002008-01-02T12:44:00.000-05:00Who ever said Saddam was responsible for 911 ? Thi...Who ever said Saddam was responsible for 911 ? This was a point made by anti-war Dems not Bush or his stupid supporters. However,your entire agruement is irrational... your trying to make an issue with an anti-war talking point that is off the point entirely and therefore in the end hurtful to the anti-war movement.<BR/>Stupid, factless rhetoric doesn't accomplish anything. Also, profanity, namecalling and other noncohesive thoughts hurt our chances of convincing others that pushing for redeployment of our troops LESS possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-3628899266718364552007-12-26T16:15:00.000-05:002007-12-26T16:15:00.000-05:00I see that the partisan troll brigade has begun op...I see that the partisan troll brigade has begun operations, which is a shame. Oh well. Never mind them.<BR/><BR/>This would depress me too, but they deserve at least a red underline and a mark saying "not factually correct" or similar. I remember getting one on a report that I wrote where I had been very confused by media reports. Mind you, I was about five years old.ordinalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02382405168219689541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-50562852500826190412007-12-20T09:11:00.000-05:002007-12-20T09:11:00.000-05:002/3 of people are just rather stupid. i do believe...2/3 of people are just rather stupid. <BR/><BR/>i do believe that as a teacher you're obligated to address this generally with whatever tools are availible to you. <BR/><BR/>but can we can it with the unsupportable contention that people who believe that saddam blew up the towers are only repeating what fox news or the bush administration told them?<BR/><BR/>i've encountered a number of fools who seem to simultaneously believe that saddam and the u.s. government blew up the towers, and they tend to be people who were 13 years old when 9-11 occurred. <BR/><BR/>it's also widely held that jfk was assinated by the cia and that nixon started the vietnam war. are these misgivings the result of rightwing connivances also?<BR/><BR/>you're adding to rather than dispelling the shroud of ignorance when you misattribute the "saddam did 9-11" misapprehension to bush and/or fox.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-58482961859914595562007-12-19T17:03:00.000-05:002007-12-19T17:03:00.000-05:00Saddam had the motive, resources, and the opportun...Saddam had the motive, resources, and the opportunity (through a multitude of contacts with AQ) to have been involved in 9/11. Considering the gross miscalculations and failures of all the intelligence agencies on a regular basis, a person would have to be a fool to think it an absurd idea for Iraq to have been covertly involved somehow (and completely kooky, or thoroughly ignorant, to say that Iraq WAS definitely behind 9/11.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-10199030843402423842007-12-19T01:09:00.000-05:002007-12-19T01:09:00.000-05:00Timothy Burke said "If it's something we dealt wit...Timothy Burke said "If it's something we dealt with in the course at some level of specificity, I'm more comfortable holding a student accountable for it. But sometimes I really do feel the need to write a lengthy comment about what seems like more generalized ignorance. But when you're aware that the source of that ignorance is generalized through the whole society, then it's hard to individualize the critical response."<BR/><BR/>Students have a responsibility to make sure that everything they state in a paper is correct. Holding them responsible for errors even when those are the conventional wisdom is part of the teaching process; otherwise, it would be wrong to test students on anything that wasn't common knowledge.<BR/><BR/>The misuse of "it's/its" and "your/you're" and the use of "gratuitous" quotation marks is also generalized through the whole society, and I would have no hesitation about correcting them, and penalizing a student's grade for them.<BR/><BR/>Of course I would also offer the student a chance to provide evidence in support of their assertion -- and use *that* to teach the difference between "What talk show host X or partisan commentator Y said on television" and "evidence."John Fasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11770384424027460723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-32305464367477388352007-12-17T15:49:00.000-05:002007-12-17T15:49:00.000-05:00An absence of evidence does not equal evidence of ...<I>An absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.</I><BR/><BR/>This line of reasoning can be used to justify nearly any claim, no matter how absurd.<BR/><BR/>I have no doubt that, at some point, Iraq may have talked with al Qaeda. But there is not a shred of evidence that there way any Iraqi involvement in 9/11. And if simply talking to radical militants was a crime worthy of U.S. invasion, we'd be occupying every country in the Middle East.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the Salman Pak facility, several U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that claims it was used to train al Qaeda were bogus, and were ginned up by members of the INC, an organization that was actively trying to get the U.S. to overthrow Saddam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-2898365275834990382007-12-16T13:18:00.000-05:002007-12-16T13:18:00.000-05:00Excellent Qwinn! I completely agree. Your comment ...Excellent Qwinn! I completely agree. Your comment clearly displays the difference between intelligence and wisdom. A big problem with the public discourse is that too many people equate the two - particularly academics (for obvious reasons) :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-83457661483201779442007-12-16T09:51:00.000-05:002007-12-16T09:51:00.000-05:00Um, guys?http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-...Um, guys?<BR/><BR/>http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-05-07-911-judge-awards_x.htm<BR/><BR/><BR/>An absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.<BR/><BR/>I know some people like to think that there was never even the slightest shred of possibility that Iraq had nothing to do with it, and I personally am not saying that I think Iraq was sirectly involved, but your certitude that there was no involvement is no more "factual" than the opposite conclusion. What you're basing it on is "conventional wisdom", but to pretend like there was never a hint of evidence to the contrary of that CW (the above article, the Salman Pak training camp, and lots of other evidence) is simply false.<BR/><BR/>QwinnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-77397795821817972862007-12-16T09:42:00.000-05:002007-12-16T09:42:00.000-05:00Saddam Hussein's regime has opened talks with Osam...Saddam Hussein's regime has opened talks with Osama bin Laden, bringing closer the threat of a terrorist attack using chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, according to US intelligence sources and Iraqi opposition officials. The key meeting took place in the Afghan mountains near Kandahar in late December. - <A HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,314700,00.html" REL="nofollow">Julian Borger</A>, February 6, 1999Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-47279550930013750552007-12-14T21:56:00.000-05:002007-12-14T21:56:00.000-05:00PS I'm female and contradictory comments aren't in...PS I'm female and contradictory comments aren't invalid. They should thought-provoking, not troll-enticing.Natasha Zabchukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05352507586403477464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-6283400568824346342007-12-14T10:17:00.000-05:002007-12-14T10:17:00.000-05:00Thanks Steve, but there is no need to defend anyo...Thanks Steve, but there is no need to defend anyone to random trolls like that. Ignore him and he will go away.Rob Helpy-Chalkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13814390262154687969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-1113562292498613042007-12-14T10:15:00.000-05:002007-12-14T10:15:00.000-05:00jim hrris (above). I have taught with Dr. Helpy C...jim hrris (above). I have taught with Dr. Helpy Chalk, and your comment above is completely ridiculous. He is an excellent teacher.Stephen Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10701308412865951162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-65091778960722004782007-12-14T07:07:00.000-05:002007-12-14T07:07:00.000-05:00Maybe if you were a better teacher your students w...Maybe if you were a better teacher your students would be better informed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-82884738772665068032007-12-14T05:30:00.000-05:002007-12-14T05:30:00.000-05:00This is the single most dispiriting thing I have e...This is the single most dispiriting thing I have ever read.<BR/>Is there no hope for America?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-32640723177237363222007-12-13T19:21:00.000-05:002007-12-13T19:21:00.000-05:00Painter, there's a difference between knowledge an...Painter, there's a difference between knowledge and knowingness. Knowingness is a pose that doubts the truth and value of all knowledge. Only junior high students and Buddhist monks take it seriously.<BR/><BR/>The rest of us, accepting that all is imperfect, try to figure out what is going on so that we can figure out what to do. And, ultimately, we must do something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-51731822618968569712007-12-13T16:32:00.000-05:002007-12-13T16:32:00.000-05:00Hahaha I can't say I'm not offended that I was cal...Hahaha I can't say I'm not offended that I was called a troll. But I probably would get my... what was it - Jollies? - if you wanted to tear me down. <BR/><BR/>On a broader view, if a society does not question authority, then I worry what innovative thinking will be lost and what freedoms we will inevitably lose. <BR/><BR/>If Hitler tells you Jews are evil and they need to be wiped off the face of the Earth (his experts tell you so! they show you proof!), will you believe him?<BR/><BR/>If Bush tells you Iraq is responsible for 9/11 and they need to be taken down immediately (his experts tell you so! they show you proof! CNN!), will you believe him?<BR/><BR/>I'm not commenting because I want to start a flame war, I'm commenting because I think that people who are close-minded need to be approached by more open-minded people more often to try and shed some light. Maybe even then you'll disagree with me but at least accept the possibility.<BR/><BR/>I sure as hell don't know what actually happened.Natasha Zabchukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05352507586403477464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-4041244655268060232007-12-13T15:33:00.000-05:002007-12-13T15:33:00.000-05:00I don't agree with marking students down for an as...I don't agree with marking students down for an aside comment within an essay; it ultimately comes down to the teacher's notion of how off kilter the statement is within the topic itself. The teacher MUST address this topic in class, however, preferably w/o mentioning students' names.<BR/><BR/>It really is a good thing that ignorance isn't painful. If it were we'd have aspirin riots in the streets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-26633690685855767092007-12-13T15:32:00.000-05:002007-12-13T15:32:00.000-05:00We are too early in our years to write history boo...<I>We are too early in our years to write history books that state whether or not they caused 9/11. It's an inability to open up your mind that makes you pity your students.</I><BR/><BR/>This is a troll, right? The whole "let's not prejudge an idea that's been throughly debunked by every reputable expert on Mideast affairs but which provided an unofficial and very heavily implied justification for an invasion that has caused an insurmountable amount of human suffering" concept; this is designed to get us to flame you so that you can get your jollies, am I correct? <BR/><BR/>Because I'm not biting; go troll elsewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-48364140131638533862007-12-13T15:18:00.000-05:002007-12-13T15:18:00.000-05:00This made me want to cry.This made me want to cry.Customer Service Hellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17090222923268155292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-74270643753541191302007-12-13T04:44:00.000-05:002007-12-13T04:44:00.000-05:00You can't let errors like that pass. An essay as a...You can't let errors like that pass. An essay as a complete entity, and an essay full of nonsensical examples is nonsensical.<BR/><BR/>No more "gentleman's Cs" for the ignorant. Mark them down. Mark them down. Mark them down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-86562276902459168202007-12-13T03:34:00.000-05:002007-12-13T03:34:00.000-05:00Sheeesh, can't anybody play this game anymore? I m...Sheeesh, can't anybody play this game anymore? I may be harsh, but somebody sticking such a glaring error in a paper in my class would get a failing grade. I'd let them make it up, but we've suffered enough from this tolerance for wrong-headedness. How in hell do you think Bush got his degrees. Too many professors who wouldn't flunk him for failing to engage his brain. See how well that worked out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-780331318701392862007-12-13T02:48:00.000-05:002007-12-13T02:48:00.000-05:00I teach political science in a post-Soviet country...I teach political science in a post-Soviet country where the majority of the population is nominally Muslim. So I have not seen or heard this particular mistake. <BR/><BR/>But, I have seen and heard a couple of odd references to various conspiracy theories regarding the US and Jews. Specifically they have come up in regards to Chechnya.<BR/><BR/>I do not think such factual errors by undergraduates are a big deal. I just correct them and if it is in written form deduct some points.J. Otto Pohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07457089758142264049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-83430106236428583382007-12-12T23:06:00.000-05:002007-12-12T23:06:00.000-05:00Ignorance is an unfortunate circumstance of humani...Ignorance is an unfortunate circumstance of humanity.<BR/><BR/>And assuming who I am referring to as ignorant is also unfortunate.<BR/><BR/>We are too early in our years to write history books that state whether or not they caused 9/11. It's an inability to open up your mind that makes you pity your students.Natasha Zabchukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05352507586403477464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102103.post-28034429172981293752007-12-12T22:07:00.000-05:002007-12-12T22:07:00.000-05:00OK, that is simply depressing, to see firsthand th...OK, that is simply depressing, to see firsthand that these kids are so misinformed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com